Just Call Me Chaviva

Chavi - I don't consider myself an expert in 1...

2012-02-19T05:48:28.393-07:00

Chavi - I don't consider myself an expert in 18th-19th century responsim. But even if I just take your statement as the true representation of Halachik positions then and now, that is a far cry from saying anyone then would convert someone who declared they did not intend to follow all the laws, or for whom it was clear that this was the intention based on their actions. Contrast this with some of the statements that R' Greenberg makes, about Lechatchila converting people who have no intent of going the whole way, and I think we have a big problem.

I'm currently reading a very interesting book ...

2012-02-18T18:35:21.267-07:00

I'm currently reading a very interesting book about the law on conversion and 18th & 19th century. Those who know the law and the responsim know that there is no true agreement on what the convert must know before and after the conversion process and also that if the convert converts and then does not observe, he/she is still a convert of the nation.

In todays parasha we read that Bnei Yisrael accept...

2012-02-18T12:24:02.047-07:00

In todays parasha we read that Bnei Yisrael accepted the Torah by saying " na'aseh venishma". They said that up front, in advance they take upon themselves all of the law including what will be given in the future. This is the commitment that is required from all gerim. Their souls were on Sinai with Bnei Yisrael. Like all of us they may falter, but the goal remains a lifestyle based on all of taryag mitzvot.

Our understanding for certain things change - for ...

2012-02-16T17:11:12.738-07:00

Our understanding for certain things change - for instances, the rabbis used to believe that lice spontaneously generate, therefore, since there's no prohibition to kill things that are not living, it used to be permitted to kill them on Shabbos. But when it was discovered that lice are living creatures, that law changed. If we find out information we had was wrong, then the laws get applied differently. The laws themselves though, and the principles are all meant to be eternal.

I believe that though Torah doesn't change our...

2012-02-16T12:34:21.365-07:00

I believe that though Torah doesn't change our understanding greatly changes over time. That may be one person's perspective over time or from generation to generation.

Therebbetzinrocks, I'll respectfully disagree ...

2012-02-16T08:58:14.470-07:00

Therebbetzinrocks, I'll respectfully disagree with your respectful disagreement! :) The Jewish values and mitzvos are meant to be eternal. The Torah says a bunch of times "these laws are forever." Unfortunately, certain circumstances have made certain mitzvos temporarily inapplicable (i.e. sacrifices due to lack of a Temple).

While you're correct that halacha must deal with modernity, with the example of the Shabbos setting on digital stove, it doesn't mean that the halachic principles are changing - they're simply being applied to something that hadn't existed yet when the principles were transmitted to us. The eternal law simply gets applied to the new technology.

I think what ultimately separates Orthodoxy from the non-Orthodox movements is that an Orthodox person looks at the discrepancies between what the Torah tells him to be and what he's actually ending up to be and says, "The Torah is perfect, I'm the one who needs to change." He then spends his life working to make himself as close to the Torah's expectations as possible. He makes strides, he sometimes fall back, but his continuous movement is towards always attempting to get closer to the goal.

In the non-Orthodox movements, the message seems to be more like "The Torah needs to change in order to accommodate whatever part of me I don't want to change."

Sorry, Chavi, but IMHO, taken as a whole this piec...

2012-02-16T07:06:07.770-07:00

Sorry, Chavi, but IMHO, taken as a whole this piece is very troubling, even if it is peppered with some nice language here and there. There are so many fundamental problems with what he is saying, that I’ll have to limit myself here to only a few major ones.

Let’s start with the fact that R’ Greenberg states explicitly that he actively partakes “in converting non-observant or less observant Jews”. I know he defines himself as (modern) Orthodox, but I am not familiar with any serious Orthodox authority that says you can convert a person who you know will not keep – or attempt to keep – the Mitzvot. If he would like to propose that such a conversion is legit, the burden of proof is on him, and he does not prove it here. Even if only for this reason, and for the simplistic way in which he brushes off the opinion of R’ Moshe Feinstein z”l – one of the greatest Halachik mind of the previous generation - the entire column should be suspect, IMHO.

[Note that there are discussions about the degree importance of accepting Mitzvot in the conversion process, but if he has a clear Halachik position on this, he has not made it clear.]

This lack of Halachik seriousness is prevalent throughout the article, as in the cases where he says a person can be considered accepting the obligation of Kashrut while knowingly eating non-kosher foods: “Thus, a person who gives up pig or shellfish… can, even if not keeping a kosher home, legitimately say: I accept the obligation to keep kosher”. I strongly disagree. R’ Greenberg seems to completely ignore the distinction between a person who tries and tries to keep ALL the Halacha, but fails due to human failings, and a person who declares openly that he/she does not accept upon him/herself all those obligations. If we accept a person who chooses the latter into our midst, we are basically saying – invent your own religion, and we will accept you as a full member of OUR covenant. Sorry – no can do. The most basic tenant of Orthodoxy is that these obligations stem from your commitment to G-d’s word, and you don’t pose conditions for G-d – you accept his. Even if Halacha does change over time within Orthodoxy, it does not accept just any change, or personal choice in what you keep and what not.

I could go on – so many things annoy me in this column – but that is the main point I wanted to make.

JITC, Respectfully, I don't totally agree - I ...

2012-02-16T06:32:09.787-07:00

JITC, Respectfully, I don't totally agree - I believe the values and laws set out in the Torah can evolve, and have, over the thousands of years we have been doing this. The vast wonder that is hundreds of volumes of Jewish opinions and writings do exactly that - extrapolate Torah to apply to what is happening to us today (shabbes settings on modern stoves, for example). I think this is different from re-writing it.

I completely agree that God loves anyone that'...

2012-02-15T21:31:18.027-07:00

I completely agree that God loves anyone that's trying to be a good person. Surely none of us are perfect. I think the key to being a halachic Jew, though, is to never rationalize our mistakes. If we fall short it's US who are not living up to the Torah - not the Torah that needs to change for our shortcomings. He doesn't make that point (at least in the snippet you've included) but I think that part is key.

Because if my values never change, then I can keep working towards the goal - even if I've failed a thousand times. If I start to re-write things, I have no chance of getting there. (This - by the way - is one of the biggest things I've stressed as Mayim's spiritual mentor.

Excellent! Well said! I couldn't agree more....

2012-02-15T21:15:10.223-07:00

Excellent! Well said! I couldn't agree more.

De nada!

2012-02-15T20:31:55.715-07:00

De nada!

fantastic

2012-02-14T12:03:45.467-07:00

fantastic

Whats also interesting is; what happens when the p...

2012-02-14T09:30:06.588-07:00

Whats also interesting is; what happens when the people in the place and kehilla follow a plethora of different minhagim?

Someone passed this on to me, and I find it *quite...

2012-02-14T09:04:47.615-07:00

Someone passed this on to me, and I find it *quite* fascinating and appropriate for the conversation!

From: http://revach.net/halacha/tshuvos/Rav-Moshe-Shternbuch-Does-a-Baal-Tshuvah-Follow-the-Minhagim-of-His-NonRelgious-Father/5199

Rav Moshe Shternbuch: Does a Baal Tshuvah Follow the Minhagim of His Non-Relgious Father?
Rav Moshe Shterbuch was asked about a Ba'al Tshuvah whose roots were from a Chasiddishe family but his father strayed and now he found his way back, whether he was beholden to his father's minhagim or since his father doesn't keep this minhagim the chain is broken?

Rav Shterbuch (1:354) says the Pischei Tshuva (YD 214) says that if the son never kept these minhagim he need not start. The Tshuva MeiAhava (2:259) argues and says he is beholden to his ancestor's minhagim.

Rav Shterbuch says that this person is beholden to the minhagim of his Rebbe'im who are like his father in this respect. He furthermore brings a Gilyon Maharsha in the name of the Chavas Ya'ir who says that minhagim are not dependent on a person's father but rather the place and Kehila that one is part of.

@mottel I disagree with much of what you are sayin...

2012-02-13T19:53:46.279-07:00

@mottel
I disagree with much of what you are saying. Minhagim are minhagim, as long as they do not contradict or subvert halachic precedent there is nothing wrong with learning them and enriching ones Judaism by them.
Take for example your comment,
"If you're taking on the kulot of eating kitniyos on pesach, then you'll also have to keep the chumrot of six hours (and glatt) for meat, not saying a brocha on mitzvos asei sh'hazman grama (lulav, shofar etc.) and the rest."
I believe this is inaccurate. First, the Rambam rules explicitly that kitnyiot are perfectly acceptable pesach foods (Hametz u'Matza 5:1). It is not a "kulot" to eat them since they cause absolutely no halachic problem. Conversely, one is not obligated to the stringency of halak beit yosef meat if one decides to eat kitnyiot. The Rambam in hilkhot shkitah 11:15 says that this practice (now referred to as halak beit yosef because the Maran codified it in his Shulchan Arukh) was never heard of in Sepharad or France and is INAPPROPRIATE because it leads to a loss of Jewish money. As for keeping six hours, not all Sephardim keep six hours. The S&P Sephardim of Amsterdam only wait one hour. My point being, Halacha is our bottom line, all else is negotiable.
Second, there is a very interesting matter recorded by Hacham Shem Tob Gaguine in his "Keter Shem Tob." On daf quf samek zayin, afef, H. Gaguine say's that the S&P Sephardim of London have a peculiar custom of repeating the kaddish yatom before the barchu of Aleinu. H. Gaguine found no reason to repeat the kaddish. If your analysis is correct that,
"When it comes to the second category of customs, those that have been picked up and passed down by Jews throughout the generations, it's important not to mix and match. A set of minhagim are a path in Divine service - they're a means, hallowed by generations of observance, to connect to G-d,"
then we should expect H. Gaguine to have said that the sephardi kehila was bound to this particular custom because it was their "unique avodah." But, what he in fact tells them is they make an unnecessary repetition and should refrain from continuing this custom.
Customs are not written in stone. I think a bit more sober approach to this issue is to be preferred than the one you are offering.
Kol tuv

I love Reyna and Sammy, they are some of the best ...

2012-02-10T06:57:31.493-07:00

I love Reyna and Sammy, they are some of the best people I know. They are pillars of the community, I spent many, many a Friday night with them when I lived in Boston :)

What about sh*t converts say to people born Jewish...

2012-02-09T16:31:43.567-07:00

What about sh*t converts say to people born Jewish?

Mazals! Seems like you're settling into amazin...

2012-02-09T08:12:04.000-07:00

Mazals! Seems like you're settling into amazing (even on the days that it's just plain boring + normal goodness). Would you mind posted the gluten-free challah recipe if it was any good? Both my acupuncturist and Western doc told me last week that it was time to end my affair with gluten once and for all. (Traditional) Challah is going to be the trickiest thing for me to give up because I equate it with the point in the week where I finally get to breathe. Need a replacement stat!

Wow, Arkee. You should really stop repressing tha...

2012-02-08T09:42:20.872-07:00

Wow, Arkee. You should really stop repressing that hostility and let us know how you really feel.

And after you're done with your rant, could I borrow your broad-stroke brush to paint the side of my house in one go?

So you joined the Orthodox gang. Farewell to Big ...

2012-02-08T05:46:52.596-07:00

So you joined the Orthodox gang. Farewell to Big Bang cosmology and Darwinian biology, all your needs for thinking have been removed and rationality is out the window. Of course, the modern Orthodoxy wraps itself in sugar coating and seems very relevant, but O rabbis have ruled that it is OK to buy the organs of an executed Falun Gong practitioner in China as long is the victim is a goy and the beneficiary is a Jew. You can also look at your hands and see the blood of Itzhak Rabin killed by an orthodox Jew at the behest of rabbis. Welcome to Jewish fascism and racism and enjoy your ride at the back of the bus in Israel. In your spare time, spit on an eight year old (immodestly dressed?) and burn a Reform kindergarten and a Conservative synagogue. It all comes with the territory. Shame!!

Damn! Would you PLEASE stop the automatic connetio...

2012-02-06T03:37:09.294-07:00

Damn! Would you PLEASE stop the automatic connetion to the audio of your speech? Once is enough.

Did you know that Reyna who created this video is ...

2012-02-06T00:36:50.629-07:00

Did you know that Reyna who created this video is the author of an AMAZING cookbook called "Persian Food from the non-Persian Bride"? It's one of my favorites and a must for any kosher foodie. I was fortunate enough to hear her tell her story of South American secret Jewish past and conversion.

This is just sad because it is so true. And also w...

2012-02-05T14:22:10.627-07:00

This is just sad because it is so true. And also why so many converts stay in the closet when they can.

-Chaviva: I think it's important to define wha...

2012-02-04T22:31:36.635-07:00

-Chaviva:
I think it's important to define what a minhag is - as the term is applied to parallel, but different concepts.

-Eating gefilte fish - or Moroccan Fish - Friday night is a "minhag."

-Eating Shvartze Kashe (Buckwheat) on Shabbat Shira is a custom.

-Waiting Six hours vs. 3 hours vs. 1 hour between meat and milk is a custom.

-Saying Hallel on Rosh Chodesh is a custom.

The first category is what we'll call a cultural custom - eating chollent v. chamim or the like. Obviously while there may be special cultural or communal importance behind it - but there's little binding a change.

The last categories are far more binding in their adherence (hallel on rosh chodesh is a minhag of the naviim - which are kept by all Jews) and the ways in which they must be kept.

Thus, by the third category, different customs in psak, one can not mix and match. If you follow ashkenazi v. eidot hamizrach v. sfardi v. persian custom etc. there are many halachic ramifications that exist - and by entering into one of them, you are bound by them all. If you're taking on the kulot of eating kitniyos on pesach, then you'll also have to keep the chumrot of six hours (and glatt) for meat, not saying a brocha on mitzvos asei sh'hazman grama (lulav, shofar etc.) and the rest.

When it comes to the second category of customs, those that have been picked up and passed down by Jews throughout the generations, it's important not to mix and match. A set of minhagim are a path in Divine service - they're a means, hallowed by generations of observance, to connect to G-d.

We're not talking (only) about eating a goose on Chanukah (a Yekkishe 'minhag') or wearing sfardishe styles of clothes, we're talking about a specific path in one's spiritual service.

Why yes, it is!

2012-02-04T22:02:30.566-07:00

Why yes, it is!