Ask Chaviva Anything!: The Sartorial Stuff

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Two sartorial questions: (1) Aside for uncovering your hair, have you changed anything about the way you dress since you got divorced? (2) What do you wear when you exercise? Sorry if this one seems tactless or tone-deaf, but I'm fascinated by the way people who uphold sundry modesty standards deal with dressing for the gym and I remember you had some posts about athletic wear on the old blog.

My dress hasn't really changed since I got divorced. So that's an easy answer. Wait, I take that back. Since I don't live in Teaneck anymore, I'm a lot more chill about my attire. I take a lot more time to feel good about what I'm wearing and to be very relaxed (yet professional) in my clothing choices. Dressing is a lot more fun now, I think.

As for what I wear to work out? Well, I'll probably get a lot of flack for this, but when I work out I wear workout pants and a baggy short-sleeve shirt. When I lived in Teaneck, I wouldn't have dreamed of doing this but as I take my health more seriously, I have to be realistic about working out and being comfortable while doing it. The thing I've realized is that, at the gym, people are too busy focusing on themselves to pay attention to me. If anything, I think the girl who shows up in a full hijab to work out stands out more than I do. So, from a tznius perspective, I'm doing myself a service by not standing out with long sleeves, a skirt with pants under it, etc.

FYI: Find all the goodies from The Tzniut Project here!

Men's Edition | The Tzniut Project 3: Behavior Around Women

This is the third in the Men's Edition of a multi-part series called The Tzniut Project. For the Men's Edition, men from a variety of backgrounds with a variety of observances have volunteered to anonymously answer questions that I have written about their practices, people's assumptions, and more. For more information on the project, click here. 

Please continue to check back with The Tzniut Project and the Men's Edition to read more stories!

Note: This post is contributed by a reader. 

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1. How do you affiliate Jewishly? Feel free to elaborate on the words people use to describe you and the words you use to describe yourself.
In America I'd be called Modern-Orthodox, and in Israel I'd be categorized as Religious-Zionist. Overall, I'd say that I believe in strict adherence to Halacha, but realizing that sometimes different ideals, both sanctioned by the Torah, can clash and require you to make compromises in order to balance them out.

2. I say modesty or tzniut … as a man, what does that mean to you?
This means dressing in a manner that respects the people around me and the activity that I am partaking in.

An even bigger part of it is how you interact with women you meet, at work or socially.

I also believe, in general, in going a bit beyond that to make this issue more vivid in my day-to-day experience. Thus, while I will go on hikes in shorts, in general I will always leave the house in long pants.

3. Growing up, did your father or grandfather wear a kippah or any other “modest” or recognizable Jewish dress?
Yup. All my family, from both sides, is strongly Orthodox.

4. Do you think tzniut was something instilled in you by your family? Did you dress with any type of modest or recognizable Jewish dress growing up?
For sure. However, the question, I believe, does not hit the mark for men as much as it does for women. Men hardly have any clear halachik restrictions in terms of dress code, and after discussing this with my wife in past years I realized that this is probably not a coincidence: men are simply more drawn to physical stimuli than women are (in general).

To me, in today's day and age, a man's modesty is not expressed so much in how he dresses --  a more important factor is how he behaves around women, or when exposed to indecent images on the street or on television. Once you are married, these issues become even more important. In this sense, I feel that these issues were instilled in me as a kid. However, I only have brothers but no sisters, and so some of these issues came up much later in the game than for others, I would assume.

5. Are you married? How does your spouse feel about your choices regarding tzniut? Is it a dialogue or does your partner leave the mitzvah to you?
I am married, and as far as I know she is fine with my choices. When an issue comes up, I'll ask her if she thinks I should take extra precautions, and I will follow her advice unless I have a strong rational why not to do so.

6. What would you wear on a typical day? On Shabbos? If you dress or carry yourself differently on weekdays and Shabbos, why do you make this distinction and how?
I wear a shirt (long/short sleeve) and long pants -- and a Kipa and Tzitzis, of course. On Shabbat, I'll dress in formal cloths. However, as I mentioned above, this question is much less relevant, I feel, for men than for women.

7. What do you think other people infer from your clothing and head-covering choices? Has anyone ever said anything to you outright that expresses a judgment based on your appearance? (Ex: “You wear a kippah, so you must be x,y,z”)
Actually, that DID happen to me a few months ago. I was walking around where I work and someone came up to me and said, "I knew there were religious people here, but its great to see someone walk with their Tzitzis out like that." It made me feel good --  I was just being me, but to this person, I was making a statement, that you can be proud of who you are and not feel the need to fit in to the point where you need to hide your Jewishness.

8. Have you ever surprised someone by way of tzniut, making them rethink their stereotypes about what it means to be an observant Jew?
Many non-observant Jews and non-Jewish people I've talked to were surprised to hear about Isur Negia and how my wife and I were never intimate or even close to that before we married. They usually find it unbelievable to think that one could decide to marry without having a physical relationship to build on first. Of course, the fact that their grandparents probably had no problem with this concept usually eludes them ...

9. When you see someone who observes tzniut or dresses differently than you, what are your initial thoughts? How do you deal with them?
I respect people that go the extra mile to be modest, especially women, who have to work harder at it. On the other hand, extreme immodesty makes me uncomfortable, and when I'm exposed to it on the street I wish people would respect the public spaces we share and not force upon me this feeling. Of course, I live in this world, and if I have to interact with these people I put civility first -- they might make me uncomfortable, but I realize this is a culture thing, and they have a right to their opinion and style even if I think its morally problematic.

10. Anything else you’d like to add about your choices, experiences, and more!
Just to say that the most important thing I feel about modesty is to be honest with yourself about it. Especially for men, today's world is so full of immodest images and interactions that it takes a lot of work to maintain modesty on all these levels, and its important to always check yourself to make sure you are happy where you are on this spectrum.

Men's Edition | The Tzniut Project 2: Compassion, Shame, Benevolence

This is the second in the Men's Edition of a multi-part series called The Tzniut Project. For the Men's Edition, men from a variety of backgrounds with a variety of observances have volunteered to anonymously answer questions that I have written about their practices, people's assumptions, and more. For more information on the project, click here. 

Please continue to check back with The Tzniut Project and the Men's Edition to read more stories!

Note: This post is contributed by a reader. 

1. How do you affiliate Jewishly? Feel free to elaborate on the words people use to describe you and the words you use to describe yourself.Modern Orthodox or Centrist Orthodox. The elaboration: I use those terms as R Aharon Lichtenstein and R Lamm taught me to define and embrace them.

Although the approach of R Jonathan Sachs to shun all limiting labels or R Josh Yuter's Shomer Torah are attractive, I am still influenced by R Lichtenstien and R Lamm definitions/terminology from my formative years

2. I say modesty or tzniut … as a man, what does that mean to you?How one acts and dresses. Dress: I rarely wear shorts in public. To the extant my kids express shock if I ever do. My clothes for the most part are not loud (a lot of fall colors, toward the end of fall).

It means dressing and acting appropriately. Tzniut is not an objective but a subjective, right time and right place for some things.

3. Growing up, did your father or grandfather wear a kippah or any other “modest” or recognizable Jewish dress?One of my grandfather's did in public. My father was more comfortable without one at work or at a ball game.

I always wore one. I was at a trade show in France and on the first day wore a kippah. WOW did I fee uncomfortable. I did not wear one at subsequent shows.

My mother never wanted me to wear my tzizit hanging out. I subsequently learned that that is preferred by some.

I taught my son that kippah and tzizit is how a Jew dresses at all times (not bathing/swimming). BUT tzizit was more important.

4. Do you think tzniut was something instilled in you by your family? Did you dress with any type of modest or recognizable Jewish dress growing up?I did wear kippah and tzizit growing up. In Israel I did not like being in a large institution with everyone knowing my name but I did not know their’s. So I stopped wearing a kippah with a name. I started wearing a plain black knit kippah.

By the by, I do not consider kippah part of tzniut but the questions are pointing in that direction

A kippah should remind one how to act and is at the heart of tzniut. I guess I need to work on that -- not the wearing part, which I do wear one, but the message.

5. Are you married? How does your spouse feel about your choices regarding tzniut? Is it a dialogue or does your partner leave the mitzvah to you?I am married and my wife does it to me, and I know she would be very comfortable if I wore more colors, shorts, jeans. But I don’t.

My grandmother decided to cover her hair after being married for more than 20 years. Her husband went to very traditional yeshivot. Take what you want from the story. It is a good model of doing things because of motivation and mutual respect.

6. What would you wear on a typical day? On Shabbos? If you dress or carry yourself differently on weekdays and Shabbos, why do you make this distinction and how?Shabbos: white long-sleeve pressed shirt, slacks, jacket in shul (or suit). Tie depends if I am on time or not). Going to the park with the kids I also will only go when wearing a white long-sleeve pressed shirt.

During the week: black shoes, black knit kippah, black pants, grey shirt.

As I said about I think Tzniut is subjective. What is right for Wednesday is not right for Shabbat.

7. What do you think other people infer from your clothing and head-covering choices? Has anyone ever said anything to you outright that expresses a judgment based on your appearance? (Ex: “You wear a kippah, so you must be x,y,z”)I guess when I am at the Shabbos park in my white shirt I think the contrast to those who don’t is stark. I do want to somehow -- through what I wear -- portray a “Shabbos atmosphere.”

8. Have you ever surprised someone by way of tzniut, making them rethink their stereotypes about what it means to be an observant Jew?I heard the following this year in the context of sex ed in school: We should not judge young women by what is their hardest challenge. We tend to judge based on dress, but it is a very difficult challenge as they are evaluating their appearance, fashion sense, fitting in with friends, their new body, their sex appeal and how to use it and how NOT to.

"This nation is characterized by three things: they are compassionate, bashful/shameful, and benevolent [rachmanim, baishanim, ve-gomlei chasadim]." (Yevamot 79a)

So for me when someone has these characteristics that is what should strike people and say WOW. (Working on that, too.)

9. When you see someone who observes tzniut or dresses differently than you, what are your initial thoughts? How do you deal with them?I am very impressed by the way people act and speak. I am sure to some it comes easy but many people regardless of how they dress do speak and act in a refined way. See Talmud Yevamot 79a cited above.

10. Anything else you’d like to add about your choices, experiences, and more!

N/A

Men's Edition | The Tzniut Project 1:People Think I'm a Rabbi

This is the first in the Men's Edition of a multi-part series called The Tzniut Project. For the Men's Edition, men from a variety of backgrounds with a variety of observances have volunteered to anonymously answer questions that I have written about their practices, people's assumptions, and more. For more information on the project, click here. 


Please continue to check back with The Tzniut Project and the Men's Edition to read more stories!

Note: This post is contributed by a reader. 

1. How do you affiliate Jewishly? Feel free to elaborate on the words people use to describe you and the words you use to describe yourself. 
Orthodox, yeshivish, ben Torah.

2. I say modesty or tzniut … as a man, what does that mean to you? 
Keeping shirt buttoned, no shorts, not talking about private matters in public, using respectful language, separate seating, not going up to women to say hello, avoiding places where men and women mix. Not going to the beach. Avoiding places where women don’t dress appropriately. Being careful what I see and what websites I go to and what movies/videos I watch.

I never wear jeans.

3. Growing up, did your father or grandfather wear a kippah or any other “modest” or recognizable Jewish dress? 
My father and grandfather both wore a kippah. My father always wore a hat of some type outside the house.

4. Do you think tzniut was something instilled in you by your family? Did you dress with any type of modest or recognizable Jewish dress growing up? 
My ideas of tznius I got from Yeshiva. Not sure that Jewish dress is related to tznius.

5. Are you married? How does your spouse feel about your choices regarding tzniut? Is it a dialogue or does your partner leave the mitzvah to you? 
Yes I am married. My wife has much more stringent ideas of Tznius than I do. She would be very upset if I wore anything but a white buttoned dress shirt with a collar. Tznius in a marriage involves how what dresses and acts in the house alone and in front of others. Each couple has to work that out with each other.

6. What would you wear on a typical day? On Shabbos? If you dress or carry yourself differently on weekdays and Shabbos, why do you make this distinction and how? 
I tend to wear a white shirt, black pants and a black jacket. I also have a beard. I wear my tzitzis out. On Shabbos and Yom Tov I wear a black fedora and a tie. Why? Because wearing a black hat during the week will just get my hat ruined. The tie is in honor of Shabbos/yom tom.

7. What do you think other people infer from your clothing and head-covering choices? Has anyone ever said anything to you outright that expresses a judgment based on your appearance? (Ex: “You wear a kippah, so you must be x,y,z”) 
People think I am a rabbi, which is only partly true.

8. Have you ever surprised someone by way of tzniut, making them rethink their stereotypes about what it means to be an observant Jew? 
No.

9. When you see someone who observes tzniut or dresses differently than you, what are your initial thoughts? How do you deal with them? 
I judge people by the way they dress. I will assume they either belong to a particular Jewish grouping or they are totally mixed up and they don’t know what they are doing. I look to see if what they are wearing is consistent with their mores, their speech patterns, accents, and interests.

10. Anything else you’d like to add about your choices, experiences, and more! 
My son who is in yeshiva commented about me that the way I dress looks like someone from the past who hasn’t been influenced by the yeshiva style of today. He said in Yeshiva you would not find buchrim wearing black cotton pants, they will either wear polyester or wool. I look like someone who went to yeshiva in the past but I am now “out of it.”

The Tzniut Project 11: It's a Lifestyle Choice

This is the eleventh in a multi-part series called The Tzniut Project. Women from a variety of backgrounds with a variety of observances have volunteered to anonymously answer questions that I have written about their practices, people's assumptions, and more. For more information on the project, click here. Please continue to check back with The Tzniut Project to read more stories and comment abundantly!

Note: This post is contributed by a reader. 


1. How do you affiliate Jewishly? Feel free to elaborate on the words people use to describe you and the words you use to describe yourself. 
I would define myself as modern orthodox. I grew up in a modern orthodox community where most women didn't cover their hair, and wore pants, and went to the community modern orthodox yeshivas and high school. I went to a secular, ivy league college. I actually cover my hair, but still wear pants, and T-shirts and at times dresses/skirts that are a little bit higher than my knees (definitely not mini though)

2. Growing up, did your mother or grandmother dress modestly in any way? Do you think modesty was something instilled in you by your family? Did you dress modestly growing up? 
My mom wears pants and T-shirts and does not cover her hair. She never dressed immodestly, although at times she can wear things that are a bit lower cut and definitely skirts above the knees. She also wears long "Bermuda" shorts in the summer. She was always cautious that I not dress "slutty," which meant, in her opinion, very revealing tight tops and very short skirts. However, growing up I did wear short shorts in camp and tank tops as well as sleeveless sundresses.

3. Are you married? How does your spouse feel about your choices for modest dress? Is it a dialogue or does your partner leave the mitzvah to you? 
I am married. My husband actually prefers women to dress modestly. His opinion isn't necessarily based in halachic principle, rather he cares more about me showing too much to other people, and prefers this only to be for him. He actually really dislikes that I wear pants, again, not because of any halachic reasoning, but because he doesn't like the way women look in pants and prefers me to wear skirts. Before we dated, I definitely wore things a lot more low cut, and I wore pants more often. Now that we are married I wear much higher tank tops under my clothes, as well as higher long-sleeve undershirts and try to buy clothes I know he will like. In terms of covering my hair, he always thought it was my choice and would support whatever decision I chose.

4.What would you wear on a typical day? On Shabbos? If you dress differently on weekdays and Shabbos, why do you make this distinction and how? 
I actually work at a religious institution so I wear skirts below my knees, and 3/4-length-sleeved shirts with a high neck everyday. I also have to wear socks or stockings with my shoes. On Shabbos, I tend to wear fancier outfits, also more indicative of my style, so a lot of them have short sleeves or v-necks where I can wear tank tops that don't cover my collarbone. Generally on Saturday nights and Sundays I wear pants or short dresses with tights/leggings underneath. If I didn't work at my current job, I would most likely wear pants more often during the week. My Shabbos clothes are always more fun than my weekday clothes, and I always try to dress up more than I do during the week, by putting on more makeup.

5.What do you think other people infer from your clothing and hair covering choices? Has anyone ever said anything to you outright that expresses a judgment based on your appearance? (Ex: “You don’t cover your hair or wear skirts, so why do you keep kosher?”) 
I'm not really sure what people think. Walking with my husband, while we are on vacation, I cover my hair and he wears a kippah but I always think people are confused when I wear pants. However, I actually have a lot of resentment from my mom about covering my hair since I chose to do something that she doesn't do. She often comments about the way my sheitels look (in her opinion bad) and asks me to uncover my hair the minute I walk into her home.

6. Have you ever surprised someone by dressing more or less modestly and making them rethink their stereotypes about what it means to be an observant Jew? 
When I was younger I was extremely active in NCSY, and I spent alot of time with Jewish non-affiliated kids who went to public school. I always wanted them to see me as a more religious version of themselves. A lot of times people can view tzniut as constricting or restricting, but tzniut is really in the eyes of the beholder. Just because you choose to dress more modestly does not mean you cant be trendy, and it doesn't mean your sleeves have to be past your wrists. So I think having me as a reference point was a little less scary to them as lets say someone who was completely covered up all the time.

7. When you see someone who observes tzniut differently than you, what are your initial thoughts? How do you deal with them? 
I try not to judge someone based on how they are dressed. I have many family members who are more religious than I am and appreciate the way that they dress, just as they appreciate the way I dress without judging me. I always feel bad for people who wear tights and long sleeves in the summer, it can get super hot! But I respect that they dress the way that they do and hope their shirts are the breezy kind so at least they aren't so uncomfortable.

8. I say modesty or tzniut … what does that mean to you? 
Tzniut to me is a lifestyle choice. It means being modest in appearance but also in personality. I was always taught not to be too loud, or outlandish, or even incredibly flirty with my personality because that isn't necessarily being a modest person. I really feel like if you let your inner modesty show, that even if you do wear pants you can be considered a modest or tzniut individual.

9. Anything else you’d like to add about your choices, experiences, and more! 
Personally, know that wearing pants and covering your hair are two completely separate mitzvahs within the tzniut realm. In terms of wearing pants, I tend to wear less tight fitting jeans or pants and prefer the baggier, or gaucho style believing that to be a bit more tzniut than the traditional tight jeans. After learning about hair covering in school I always felt a great urge to cover my hair and believed in the mitzvah. Many of my more religious family members were surprised that I wanted to do it, and my sisters, when I got married each bet how long I would cover it for (three months and six months respectively), and I definitely have surpassed those numbers being married for two years, and I still really appreciate and believe in the mitzvah.

The Tzniut Project: Chavi Edition!

I've been very busy gathering and editing content for The Tzniut Project, and I've even started sending out some revamped questions for the Men's Edition of the project, which will have its first post on Friday, but I'm sure many of you are asking yourselves why I haven't answered the questions myself.

The thing is, when I conceived of the idea, I hadn't really thought it was necessary for me to answer the questions. After all, I talk about tzniut all the time, and I post pictures of myself on the blog. However, as answers have come in from people I know "in real life" and those I don't, I realized that I found myself frustrated with some of the answers. I also found that a lot of people were asking "what about the men?" After all, tzniut applies to men just as much as women, doesn't it?

Here are some general notes about the content so far, and following that are my own answers to the very questions I've put out there for everyone else.

• You may have noted inconsistencies in the capitalization of things like Modern Orthodox or Yeshivish, and this is because I maintained the capitalization of the author of each of the posts. I think how we capitalize things actually can say something about how we view denominations/movements/sects/streams. Am I nuts? Maybe. 
• Some people have mentioned it, and some have not: Tzniut is more than just how we dress, and when it comes to men, this is probably one of the most powerful aspects of tzniut. It's speech, how we carry ourselves, the words we do and don't use in public, how we think, the way we do or don't touch our spouses or even people who aren't our spouses. It's the movies we watch and the stories we tell, the way we sit and the way we walk. If it were just about clothes and the cloth on our heads, we'd all be doing it right -- in some way. 
• I think it's interesting how few people mention halacha when I ask about what tzniut means to them (props to No. 1 and No. 6 on this). I'm looking at everything through the lens of the editor, of course, and as someone who wanted to see certain things in the answers that sometimes weren't there. It's sort of like asking a reporter to write a story about x, y, z and him returning with something less focused but equally amazing. I established in one old blog post that hair covering is considered Dat Moshe (law from Torah), and I discussed why we do it the way we do it, too. But what about everything else? What about our hemlines and sleeve lengths and skirts over pants? Perhaps I should delve into the mitzvah of clothing and covering up. I enjoy looking at the law, anyhow!



Kind of really loving this logo I made for the Men's Edition.

• Although I already mentioned it, the number of people asking for men to chime in on the questions was surprising, and I hadn't even thought about having men answer the questions. I revamped and reordered the questions, and I'm hoping that some men will take the time to answer the questions in full and really think about how tzniut fits in a man's world outside of just what his wife or children do/wear. And after seeing a teenager in Lazy Bean in Teaneck today wearing flip-flops, board shorts, a turquoise T-shirt, a Florida Marlins cap, and his tzitzit on top of this entire getup, I'm particularly interested in whether there are even requirements or expectations for men's attire in the realm of modesty. 

Okay, are you ready? You think you know my style? Let's see!

1. How do you affiliate Jewishly? Feel free to elaborate on the words people use to describe you and the words you use to describe yourself. 
I spent a long time calling myself Underconstructionist with the belief that everyone -- Jews and otherwise -- should always be under construction. I also am not huge on labels, since they do more harm than good and, we all know that labels are incredibly narrow. But I affiliate as Orthodox, and many would probably call me Modern Orthodox. I maintain a "centrist" view of Orthodoxy, but I'm guessing because I don't wear a sheitel every day and because I leave that tefach (hand's breadth) of bangs out, most would consider me "modern."

2. Growing up, did your mother or grandmother dress modestly in any way? Do you think modesty was something instilled in you by your family? Did you dress modestly growing up? 
Y'all know I'm a convert, so there's no chance I'd have a mom in stockings and black skirts.

On that note, I don't remember much about my grandmother on my mom's side because we only saw her a lot when we were little and I haven't seen her in years. My father's mother died when he was a child, but in all the pictures I have of her, she's wearing a dress of some sort. My mom never dressed in any kind of sexual way when I was growing up, and she was fond of pants or shorts and T-shirts most of my life that I remember. Oddly enough, I don't remember ever having a desire to wear low-cut tops or short-shorts, so I don't remember ever getting a talk about modesty or being humble in my attire or the way I carried myself. I was sort of self-taught in the ways of how to act and how to speak. I was pretty modest on my own, but that was a result of image issues and a bad case of eczema. I do, however, remember that my dad insisted on us not saying any curse words, let alone words like "frick" that even resembled curse words.

3. Are you married? How does your spouse feel about your choices for modest dress? Is it a dialogue or does your partner leave the mitzvah to you?  
I am very married -- for a whole year, hoo-rah! I've blogged about shomer negiah before, and I've gotten a lot of interesting reactions to my choices even though I never dressed in any way that would be suggestive (save a short period of time in Chicago when I was sowing my wild oats after losing 25 pounds -- I felt the need to "flaunt it" but it didn't help my body image issues). When Tuvia and I got married, he never sat me down to say that he wanted me to dress a certain way. His only real beef was regarding head covering: He didn't want me to get a sheitel. Tuvia likes the way I look in hats, and he is neutral about tichels and scarves. Every now and again, when I'm wearing something that might be more "low-cut" than normal and my clavicle happens to poke out, he'll make a comment or if my skirt is a bit too short or hugging, he'll say something. But he never demands I change or busts out some Talmudic dictum for me to wear something a certain way. Although he's read the books and knows the details, I'm the one who did most of the research regarding head covering for the blog, so it informed a lot of our understanding and made it "okay" for me to pick up a sheitel.

4. What would you wear on a typical day? On Shabbos? If you dress differently on weekdays and Shabbos, why do you make this distinction and how? 
On a typical day, you can find me in a below-the-knee jean skirt with some kind of shirt and a 3/4-length or long-sleeve cardigan with Crocs or other flats (sometimes toes peeking out if they're painted) and a knit hat or scarf of some sort. I have one jean skirt that hits me right at the bottom of the kneecap when I'm standing and when I sit it makes even me uncomfortable, so I usually wear this with leggings. Usually, however, in the summer, I'm bare-legged. On Shabbos, I wear things from the "Shabbos" section of my closet! Black skirt, some type of fancy top with a shell under and a cardigan over it. I'm all about layering, even if I'm boiling. I don't wear a ton of makeup on Shabbos, because I've become uncomfortable with the idea of putting makeup on on Saturdays because of certain prohibitions, so I try to go without, which has become easier since I got married!

I haven't worn a short-sleeve shirt in public in nearly two years, and I haven't worn pants in even longer. Pants were easy for me to give up -- it's hard to find pants that fit perfectly anyway. Also, I've been a sucker for layering and cardigans forever, so modest dress was natural.

The shirt in question.

5. What do you think other people infer from your clothing and hair covering choices? Has anyone ever said anything to you outright that expresses a judgment based on your appearance? (Ex: “You don’t cover your hair or wear skirts, so why do you keep kosher?”) 
I'm guessing most people think I'm Modern Orthodox because my hair isn't completely tied back. However, I did find out that many people thought for a long time that my bangs were clip-ins! Impressive, right? I think people usually infer that I'm religious, but normal. Modern, but that there must be a rhyme or reason to why I wear what I do. Although, yesterday when we were at the outlets at Woodbury Commons, there were a million women there from Monsey or Kiryat Yoel or something, and I was wearing my SXSW T-shirt with a pig on it with a cardigan and boy oh boy was I getting some looks. Probably not a good idea to wear that shirt around, irony or not. I used to be a very T-shirts and jeans kind of gal, and I lived at thrift stores. There are some who can pull this look off today, and I can on somedays, but sometimes it makes me feel "dressed down" and not a good representative of how modesty can be beautiful and meaningful.

For those who knew me "before" I joined the dark side, I think my skirts, cardigans in boiling weather, and insistence on covering my head/hair means that I'm something I'm not. I wish more people would ask questions than make assumptions.

6. Have you ever surprised someone by dressing more or less modestly and making them rethink their stereotypes about what it means to be an observant Jew? 
I asked this question and I don't even know if I have a good answer. I hope people think it means modest = cool!

7. When you see someone who observes tzniut differently than you, what are your initial thoughts? How do you deal with them?
I wrote about this here. I got a lot of flack for it, but I was happy that so many others who answered these questions were honest and said "yeah, we judge, it's part of who we are." I'm not alone, I just tend to be the only one willing to say what people are thinking. It's a system, and to acknowledge that what someone else does makes you uncomfortable means you're discovering something about yourself.

When I saw those women at the outlets in dark stockings with the line up the back and their hat-on-sheitel looks atop black-and-white everything, I thought to myself "Are you people nuts? It's so hot out here!" I noticed a frum couple digging through a sale table ... of sweaters ... in 80+ degree heat and thought the same thing. But they're sticking to a level of modesty that they view as necessary, and for that I admire them. It just takes a few seconds to get to "respect" after "assumed insanity."

8. I say modesty or tzniut … what does that mean to you?
For me, the first thing I think of is, "Where does it come from? What does it mean? Why do we do it?" I suppose it's only natural that I'm plagued with questions from square one. It's easy for me to explain to people why we cover our hair (the sotah portion) and why we cover as much or as little as we do. But when it comes to clothing and speech and thought, it's a lot harder. As many others have said, it's a type of lifestyle, but lifestyle sounds too much like choice to me, and for me, yes I choose to do it, but the outline of what's to be done is less of a choice. Tzniut means more than modesty, it means living your life in a way that others wish to emulate. Making your modest clothes look beautiful, to emanate inner beauty, to carry yourself in thought and speech in a way that others say "Wow, if that's what tzniut is, then count me in." It's being a light, really, unto all people. It's being humbled before haShem and all that's been provided us.

From Micah 6:8:

הגיד לך אדם מה טוב ומה יי דורש ממך כי אם עשות משפט ואהבת חסד והצנע לכת עם יי

HaShem told you what is good and what is required of you: do justly, love mercy (loving-kindness), and walk humbly (modestly) with HaShem.

The word used -- הצנע (ha'tznea) -- is the same word/root for tzniut. So, basically HaShem is saying "Walk this way."

9. Anything else you’d like to add about your choices, experiences, and more! 
I think I've said enough ... for now.

The Tzniut Project

After hitting up several stores today for what I thought was called a "pencil skirt," I was corrected by some of my Twitter friends and realized what I really was looking for was a "straight skirt." All I know is that the straight skirts I have I have outgrown (even though I haven't lost weight) and they sag on me in weird areas (maybe I bought them thinking I was bigger than I was?). I love them, and I got them super cheap from Lands End, but I haven't had luck finding anything else like them. I suppose I could always get them tailored, but, wel, that costs money. (I know; I should learn how to use a sewing machine.)

Ahh to be a modestly dressed woman in search of light, summer-appropriate, tzniut skirts that won't break the bank and will withstand the hot temperatures of the U.S. and Israel. Woe, oh woe is me.

I posted something to Facebook a few days ago, and I received a surprising amount of emails and Facebook messages from women hoping to participate, so I'm stoked about what one responder called The Tzniut Project. What's this mean? I want to start a series of Q&A posts with Jewish women who observe tzniut (modesty) and the stereotypes they face, the experiences they have, and everything about what it means to dress one way and have people perceive you in their own way. You know, the classic frum (observant) woman who wears pants and short sleeves and doesn't cover her hair but would kill her kid for flipping the TV on on Shabbos or eating anything that bears a Triangle-K hechsher. We all have our preconceived notions about the way people dress and how it reflects who they are spiritually or religiously, and I want to start a dialogue about it. (This also plays to a post I wrote last week that got some questioning replies.)

Are you interested in participating? Shoot me an email and the questions will be on their way. There are about 10 questions and you can take your time answering them. This is going to be an ongoing series, and I will be doing minimal editing (only for my OCD grammar concerns) -- and most importantly, all posts will remain anonymous.

For all the posts, click here!

Embarking On Modesty (Tzniut) -- On Your Own Terms

It could be worse, this could be our headgear!

I received a question on a recent blog post from a reader that I'm going to paraphrase and discuss here. The situation? Well, the reader is considering dressing/acting in a more modest way, from hair to clothes to what she says and what she doesn't say. The reader lives in a predominately non-Jewish area, she's married to a non-Jew, and she's a Reconstructionist Jew. The question? Do I (that's me, Chavi) think that non-Orthodox women can enjoy modest style, dress, mannerisms, and everything else, or is it somehow taboo?

My first thought regarding this question was BEWARE! Why? Well, being someone who came to Judaism via Reform avenues, snaked through Conservative Judaism and zipped on to Orthodox Judaism, I can tell you that once you take on a certain mitzvah -- whether superficially or otherwise -- you really tend to get hooked. For me, it was the realization that if I was going to do x, y, z, I wanted ... nay ... needed those around me to be doing the same thing. The pull of mitzvot like modesty meant that I ended up in a place I never thought I would, but here I am. And that, folks, is the danger. 

That being said, I think that all women -- Jewish or not -- can find an appreciation and enjoyment for tzniut. But you have to be acting, dressing, and carrying yourself modestly because of a personal conviction and understanding of what you're doing. I think that many Orthodox Jews who live or work in non-Jewish atmospheres will tell you about the painstaking moments when someone queries why long sleeves are necessary in August heat or why you suddenly are toting a hat or tichel atop your head, and I think that most of those individuals would tell you that ultimately your modest oddities will be a point of information and education. If, of course, you own it. 

There is a lot to be said for speaking and carrying yourself modestly in all you do, even if you don't take on skirts and elbow covering and hair covering -- we could all use a kick back to respect, shame, and holding back some things. There's no mystery in life anymore (says the blogger who tells her readers just about everything under the sun -- or so you think! Bwahahaha!) One of the biggest problems in the Jewish community, many rabbis will tell you, is lashon hara, or gossiping and bad-mouthing your friends and foes alike. We have loose lips, many of us, so I think we all can benefit from modest mouths.

Oh! And another warning: Those who will question your motives and changes the most will be other Jews, probably those of the non-Orthodox bent. So beware; you might get some really unpleasant reactions from those around you who either think you're "heading to the dark side" or who just don't get why someone would even want to go down that road. 

Ultimately, if you feel good about yourself and the image you're portraying while dressing or acting modestly, then by golly, you're doing something right, and whether you believe or don't believe, HaShem can respect that and those around you will, too. I observe tzniut for a multi-fold reason: because I'm an Orthodox Jew (it's how we roll); because I feel powerful and beautiful when I dress and cover my hair, because I'm making that choice and styling myself in a Chavi-specific way; because I gotta respect the fact that I'm married (that's for you Tuvia); and, well, because I feel like I've gained HaShem's respect for taking on tzniut. I'm not saying those of you who don't dabble in modest dress don't have HaShem's respect, we all have our own ties and vibes from HaShem, right? 

What do you guys think about this query?

My question to the reader who posed the question would then be (and maybe she can guest blog post for us) why do you want to dress modestly, with your own special circumstances that wouldn't otherwise dictate tzniut,? What inspired you to consider this step? 

PS: Modesty doesn't mean frumpy or ugly or out of fashion or oppressive ... mmk?

Slouchy, Jeweled, and, Yes, Modest

It's been quite a while since I posted a tzniut (modest) fashion post, unless you count my vlog about modest fitness fashion, in which case it hasn't been long at all. At any rate, this is a simple outfit that I wore today, just to go out to my "office," which actually is simply the local Starbucks. I wanted to look good, so I could feel good, and that's what this outfit did for me.

I'm a huge fan of jewel tones, and I love living in my jean skirt. So that's what this outfit is: simple, casual, comfortable.

The Jessica Simpson slouchy gray hat I purchased at Century 21 (where the clothes are expensive and the accessories are perfect), and the necklace I got at Old Navy of all places (they have an amazing jewelry selection these days). The necklace has a beautiful pair of matching earrings, but in the spirit of my Let's Bring Back series and book, I opted for this philosophy today:

The "Take One Thing Off" Rule | There can be too much of a good thing, especially when it comes to accessories. Interior decorator and social powerhouse Elsie de Wolfe always used to make herself take on item off before she left the house: a bracelet, a necklace, whatever; it could have been a headband with a huge tulle bow in her case. This sage practice remains a good rule of thumb today; unless, of course, you are only wearing one thing to begin with.

The jewel-tone blue shirt is long-sleeve, soft and comfy as can be, and it's from Lands End. It's honestly my most favorite shirt on the planet (and I have it in every color to prove it). The dark gray cardigan I purchased at Nordstrom Rack, and the jean skirt, well, you can't see it, but it's floor-length and I got it in Israel. The brand is "pink," and, unfortunately, I can't seem to find it anywhere online, which bums me out.  You also can't see my boots, but they're straight from Payless Shoes and are sort of slouchy ankle boots. Oh! And the belt? It's from Target, super "on the cheap."

So get your fashion on. Be casual, be modest, and, most importantly, be beautiful!

Kosher Fitness Fashion

I'm gym-going now, thanks to some good deals on some good gyms, and I'm hoping to get over this plateau'd weight that I've been at for nearly three years now. I know, I know -- it's healthy, right, to have a consistent weight. Or is it? I think three years at one weight is a little, well, weird. So I'm going to try to really tackle it. The big issue here, however, is what to wear to the gym. There's a recent post up at In The Pink about what folks wear to workout, so consider me inspired.



Kosher Fitness Fashion from Chaviva Galatz on Vimeo.


Now to go ice my knees ...

Itching for Fall

The weather around these parts (Teaneck, that is) has been nice and cool (and by that I mean mid to upper 70s), which has me itching for Fall and Winter. Stores already have placed sweaters and winter skirts out, and that means tis the season: Get ready, here comes the changing leaves and cool weather that allows those of us of the modestly dressed variety to blend in more comfortably (not that we need to, but I'm just saying).

Inspired by the weather, I reached to the back of my closet for my long Brown Corduroy skirt, and it's a little big on me, which is always a nice feeling when you go for the winter clothes, right? Topped it with a tissue tee and a sweater I picked up recently, and you have this little number, which screams of the blacks, grays, and browns of Fall and Winter.

Sigh. Here's hoping Fall arrives soon! Worse comes to worse, I'll just head back out to the Poconos, where Fall started a few weeks ago (I need to take pictures!). Here's a touch of detail on the sweater, which, might I add, is a perfect changing-season sweater because it's a halfsies sweater -- short sleeves, cropped top, and fairly lightweight. It makes the transition smooth!

The outfit broken down:

Tichel/Scarf ~ CoverYourHair.com ($6?)
Ankle-length, Brown Corduroy Skirt (Land's End, last year, $25.00, on sale)
Target Tissue Tee Undershirt ($10.00, I think)
Cropped Gray Sweater (Conway, $10 ... yes, $10)

Oh, and this photo? Taken with my brand new Canon Powershot SX20 IS. LOVE IT. Thanks Tuvia, you're a real mensch.

Casual Clothes, Chavi Style

I know I said I didn't want to make this a regular thing, but, well, how I dress and cover my hair -- and, inevitably how I carry myself in speech and action -- are part of who I am as a Jewish woman, so it only makes sense that I'd talk about my clothes, right? I pride myself on my spend-thrift behavior, even if Tuvia thinks I pick up too many garments (hello, he still has more clothes than me!). So here's an outfit from last week, Thursday I believe, and the details therein.

This is a pretty casual, everyday outfit. If I remember correctly, I wore it running some errands. I really liked the twist detail on the tanktop, and throwing a white shirt under it was perfect and it was a definite airy wear. The skirt is super cozy, as well, a cotton/linen type of fabric with an awesome detail at the bottom of eyelets. Throw a scarf with it and bam, an outfit to run errands in or grab a burger in (which I just now remember I did, with my husband!).



Top: Conway (NYC, awesome, $9.99)
Undershirt: Kiki Riki (Susan Abrams, local, $14.00)
Skirt: Lane Bryant Outlet (The fun-time adventure in North Carolina, $20.00)
Scarf: CoverYourHair.com ($6.00, I think ...)
Shoes: Crocs sandals ($25.00-ish)


Overall, this is an outfit that costs less than $75, and a third of that comes from the shoes, which I wear pretty much every day. I really need to learn to accessorize, however. Necklaces, earrings, etc. I wear the same stuff everyday, which is, well, it's fine, but come on. I can rock a mean pair of dangly earrings, so why shouldn't I?

Also: There is a CoverYourHair.com promotion going on RIGHT NOW! The kind folks at CYH are giving away a $200 giftcard to one of the following retailers: Macys, Target, Toys R Us, Banana Republic, GAP, and Children's Place. All you have to do is head over to CYH and enter to win. And, while you're at it, buy some head coverings, mmk?

Note: I'd wanted to post a video blog of how I tie my tichel, but, unfortunately, YouTube was disagreeing with me (my 3 minute video is TOO long? what?) and Vimeo appears to think that my voice and the video shouldn't match up (grrr). So stay tuned, that's coming, too. 


Second Note (of importance): Stay tuned for a big, mind-blowing post about ... hair. Covering it. New ways I'm choosing to cover it, and more. I think I might get flamed by some of my faithful blog readers, and patted on the back by others. Coming tonight. Are you prepared to let your MIND be blown?

Rashi on Shaving: Ki Teitzei

I used to sit down, every week, in a coffee shop, and read the weekly Torah portion (aka parshah). I'd make notes in a notebook, which I still have, and then write up a blog post with some semblance of my thoughts made coherent. That ritual began when I was living in Washington D.C. in 2006, and it continued well into 2008 before I moved to Connecticut. But when I moved to Connecticut, I got busy with school and my weekly parshah study was replaced largely by my academic probes that translated into personal discovery with Talmudic and midrashic study, as well as Hebrew.

Something Elul has me thinking about and reflecting on is my devotion to weekly, if not daily, Torah study. Or examining the halachos or some other aspect of this Jewish life I carry so proudly. Thus, I give you, some thoughts on just a bit of the upcoming parshah, Ki Teitzei. 

(Deuteronomy 22:5, with Rashi commentary from Chabad.org)

5. A man's attire shall not be on a woman, nor may a man wear a woman's garment because whoever does these [things] is an abomination to the Lord, your God.

ה. לֹא יִהְיֶה כְלִי גֶבֶר עַל אִשָּׁה וְלֹא יִלְבַּשׁ גֶּבֶר שִׂמְלַת אִשָּׁה כִּי תוֹעֲבַת יְי אֱלֹקיךָ כָּל עֹשֵׂה אֵלֶּה:

A man’s attire shall not be on a woman: making her appear like a man, thereby enabling her to go among men, for this can only be for the [purpose of] adultery. — [Nazir 59a]

לא יהיה כלי גבר על אשה: שתהא דומה לאיש כדי שתלך בין האנשים, שאין זו אלא לשם ניאוף:

nor may a man wear a woman’s garment: to go and abide among women. Another explanation: [In addition to not wearing a woman’s garment,] a man must also not remove his pubic hair or the hair of his armpits [for this is a practice exclusive to women]. — [Nazir 59a]

ולא ילבש גבר שמלת אשה: לילך ולישב בין הנשים. דבר אחר שלא ישיר שער הערוה ושער של בית השחי:

because … is an abomination: The Torah forbids only [the wearing of] clothes that would lead to abomination [i.e., immoral and illicit behavior]. — [Nazir 59a]

כי תועבת: לא אסרה תורה אלא לבוש המביא לידי תועבה:

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Okay. What struck me about this particular verse is that it relates that a woman shouldn't wear the article, or as it is understood, clothing item, that belongs to a man, while a man shouldn't wear "a woman's dress" is what it says specifically. Does that rule out bras? I'm joking, of course. The reason for this command, according to the text, is that it is an abomination. Rashi understands this to be because it would lead a man or woman to commit adultery. The modern and commonplace act of wearing pants and button-downs among women aside, how does Orthodoxy understand this?

Women in the Orthodox community wear skirts, by and large, wear skirts, so pants aren't an issue. But what about shirts that could be understood as men's clothing. A button-down, for example. The "boyfriend tee" as many places call it. A simple, classic, professional button-down shirt, skirt or not ... would it make Rashi shudder? 

And how do we view the man who wears a skirt on Purim for kicks and giggles -- is it in the spirit of this simple command not to don the dress of a woman? You won't find too many women in the Orthodox community donning full male attire for Purim (that whole skirt thing, of course), but men. Men wear dresses and skirts and get their hilarity on with ease. What validates this, considering this command from Deut. 22:5? It does seem, at the end, with Rashi, that only if the act of wearing a skirt or men's button-down would lead to "immoral and illicit behavior" is it an abomination. The assumption, however, is that the clothing itself will result in an abomination (no free choice?), so donning it isn't even an option or consideration. Or, rather, it shouldn't be. The point: No good can come from wearing the clothing traditionally worn by the opposite sex, so don't do it. Stam. 

What I'm really taken with, I will say, is the mention of how women remove their pubic and armpit hair. I was always under the impression that this was very much a 20th-century thing to do, a modern insecurity with the hair of our bodies. Now I have to wonder whether this was a normative activity even back in the 11th century. It seems strange to me, considering how difficult it must have been to shave back in the day. There weren't easy-to-use BIC razors, after all. No bikini-line razors and what have you. Definitely no Nair. Does anyone have a good history of shaving (for women, that is, I know Alexander the Great made a big to-do out of being clean-shaven; way to go Alexander!)?

I'm sure there are plenty of interesting and curious aspects of this simple verse from this week's Torah portion that I'm missing, so feel free to share what you see in it, or what you think about this whole "women dressing as men" and "men dressing as women" command. It's such a strange and unusual concept to us in the 21st century, even within the Orthodox community where women wear skirts and head coverings and men sport suits on their way to shul. I wonder what this verse will mean to us in 100 years? 500 years? What happens when we all go Star Trek and wear body suits? 

Thoughts a'plenty over here!

Fashion's Modest Cousin.

Inspired by one of my new, awesome friends who recently started a blog ("Modestly Fashioned," that is), I've decided to do a fashion piece. It won't be regular, and it may never happen again, but I think it's nice to know that, well, being modest (tzniut) and fashionable are not opposing forces.

Today, in honor of the Jewish Social Media Schmooze event in New York City, I decided to go a little vintage with my outfit, homing the power of the glorious Joan of Mad Men! I positively adore her curvaceous, yet mostly modest (circa the 1960s, after all) digs. The way they style her is proof that you can be a primo fashionista even when you have some curves. Sometimes, I just want to look good, and today was one of those days where I felt positively excellent in my clothes and in my skin.

The best thing about this outfit is that it didn't cost much to put together. (Also borrowing this item-by-item breakdown from the "Modestly Fashioned" blog -- the name that I coined!)

Polka-dotted scarf ~ CoverYourHair.com 

Red Rose Earrings ~ Urban Outfitters 

Pencil Jean Skirt ~ Land's End

Black Kiki-Riki 3/4-length crop shirt ~ Local store 

Black tanktop ~ Lane Bryant

Polka-Dotted Ruffle Shirt ~ Marshall's 

Peep-toe flats ~ Croc's 

Most of the components of this outfit I've had for quite some time (the skirt and tank top, for example, are items I've owned for 2+ years and are serving an awesome purpose). The Polka-Dotted Ruffle Shirt cost a mere $14.00 at Marshall's, and the rest of the items (save the earrings) were purchased on sale, too. I'm a sale shopper, what can I say?

All together, I'd say this outfit made me feel vintage-modest, which is a look I can be happy about. 

The point of this post? Enjoy the clothes you wear. Being modest doesn't mean selling your soul to the muumuu and baseball cap. Be comfortable, be fashionable, be modest. But most importantly, be YOU!

Leggings = Not Tzniut!?

Borrowing this from Wolfish Musings. I hope he/she doesn't mind :)

Leggings Under A Skirt Is Not Tznius?

Perhaps someone can explain this to me.

A friend of Eeees recently received a letter from her kids' school. In short the letter said that it was a violation of tznius rules for a woman to wear leggings under her skirt (even if the skirt is of the proper length).

For the life of me, I can't figure this out. How are leggings any worse than tights? On the contrary, I would think that leggings are better than tights since it is less form-fitting on the exposed lower leg.

Can anyone please explain the logic of this to me?

The Wolf

Nu? What do you guys think? I wear leggings under EVERYTHING. Most of the time they don't show. Am I crazy untzniut?